Actually, believing in the deity of Jesus Christ is a fundamental
part of being a true Christian. For if Christ was just a man, or even
a super man, then we are of all men most foolish to be looking to Him
to be the Saviour. For there is no man who could have had every single
sin of every Child of God laid upon Him, carried them to the cross,
and suffered death as the wages for those sins, and be risen up from
that death, free from that debt of sin. There is no super man who
could purge man from his sins as required, it would take a God. And
there is only one Jehovah God, who qualifies! In fact, the whole idea
of Christ being just a man or lesser god, makes the Christian belief
ridiculous.
Isaiah 43:10-11
"Ye are My witnesses, saith the Lord, and My servant whom I have
Chosen: that ye may know and believe Me, and understand that I AM He:
before Me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after Me.
I, even I, AM the Lord; and beside Me, There is No Saviour."
That word translated Lord there is in the Hebrew [yehovah] Jehovah.
There is no god before who is the Saviour, and no god after. Jehovah
God is the only possible Saviour. No man, nor superman, could
accomplish the task of being burdened with all our sins, judged for
them, and be resurrected without them. Even a non-Christians can
understand the bankruptcy of any other idea. For when we actually stop
to think about it seriously, it's quite ludicrous! Unless this man was
the very revelation of God (the only one able to become sin for us,
and withstand the judgment thereof), we have no Saviour! And that is
exactly what God said in Isaiah chapter 43 verse 11. Who could
accomplish such a feat to be a saviour? The answer in all
reasonableness is, no one but Jehovah God is the Saviour.
Which brings us to the question, "how then was He God, and yet judged
of God for our sins?" The answer is found in God's Word of promise to
His people of a Saviour, and yet there being none that could Save! If
the Word of promise was to stand and be kept lawfully, then God had to
of His own arm, bring Salvation. He Himself would have to be the
Saviour. For no one else could! If we put our hope in man for
Salvation, we hope in vain. It is the Lord God Himself who is our hope
and will set us free. As it is written, only He can Save.
Psalms 146:3-8
"Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there
is no help.
His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day
his thoughts perish.
Happy is he that hath the God of Jacob for his help, whose hope is in
the LORD his God:
Which made heaven, and earth, the sea, and all that therein is: which
keepeth truth for ever:
Which executeth judgment for the oppressed: which giveth food to the
hungry. The LORD looseth the prisoners:
The LORD openeth the eyes of the blind: the LORD raiseth them that are
bowed down: the LORD loveth the righteous:"
That word Lord there again is Jehovah. He made Heaven and earth and
all that therein is. Scripture says Christ made Heaven and earth and
all that therein is (John 1:3). There is no contradiction, for Christ
is Jehovah God. There is one God, but God reveals aspects of Himself
in three. In three, the purpose and will of God is worked out for man.
God manifested as the Father, God manifested as the Son, and God
manifested as the Holy Spirit! The Father shows God revealed in all
his Omnipotent Glory, Might and Majesty, while the Son shows God
revealed in the revelation of the Word, in Promise, in Judgment, in
Salvation, in mercy, and and in Sacrifice. And the Holy Spirit is God
revealed to man in His omnipresence to perform His will throughout the
earth and in men. This is one God, and one Power, not three! God has
made it clear "from the very beginning" about this three in the one
Godhead!
Genesis 1:26
"And God said, let us make man in our image, after our likeness..."
In the Hebrew text this is plural, not singular. God is making it very
clear that there is one God, and yet that one God works out His will
in man in three. All throughout scripture we see this same picture of
one God working out His Purpose and will on earth, in three.
Isaiah 48:16
"Come ye near unto Me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from
the beginning; from the time that it was, there AM I, and now the Lord
God, and His Spirit, hath sent Me."
There we see God give us the illustration again. Three, from the very
foundation of the world, from the time that the beginning was, there
was the great I am, and the Lord God, and His Holy Spirit. Very
concise, very clear, very unambiguous language showing us the three in
the Godhead. It's just one more example (of many) of the way God's
Word is consistent and in scriptural harmony throughout. Even as He
said "before Him there was no God formed, neither shall there be after
Him". You see, contrary to what some cults claim about multiple gods,
God Himself denies it saying there is "ONE" God in heaven. But His
purpose for man is revealed in "three."
With all these facts, still there are some misguided souls who insist,
"No that's not true, Christ and His Spirit weren't there in the
beginning with God, and He didn't create heaven and earth." But that
simply is denying the obvious. Since God refutes that. Everywhere the
scriptures tell the very same story of the Godhead being revealed in
three. These are not isolated or ambiguous verses. Jesus Christ was
fully God, who was made of no reputation by leaving the Glory He had
with the father, and was revealed in flesh, in the likeness of man, in
order to be the Savior that only God could be.
Colossians 2:9
"..For in Him dwelleth All the Fullness of the Godhead Bodily!"
How could God make that statement if it was not true? Of course, He
couldn't and wouldn't. It is true! In Christ dwells all the Fulness of
God, and yet He left His Glory in Heaven, abased Himself to become
flesh and suffer for His People as man. This is the mystery of God
that we can only grasp at ways to fully understand. Even though God
plainly tells us..
1st John 5:7
"For there are three that bear record in heaven, The Father, The Word,
and the Holy Ghost; And these Three are One!
These three are One! There is One God, manifesting Himself in three.
God, the Father, God the Holy Spirit, and God, the Word. The Word is a
synonym for Christ. He is God's Word of Salvation come to fulfillment!
The Promised Word of God revealed in the form of man! Man's word means
nothing, but God's Word is sure, righteous, dependable, and the Law!
And His Word declared that He was the Saviour! Therefore, He became
flesh to fulfill that Word. The same Word that created heaven and
earth and all that was therein became flesh! We read,
John 1:1
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the
Word Was God."
Here is understanding. The Word was not only with God, but the Word
"was God!" Which of course is totally consistent with everything else
we read. He was with Jehovah God, who created all things, and He was
Jehovah God. If there is only one God, and you are with that God, and
you are God, then it would be tortuous of scripture to claim that this
is not that God.
John 1:2
"The same was in the Beginning with God.
The two are one God. The word was there at the beginning with God
because it was God. He did not come into existence 2000 years ago when
the Word was made flesh, He's been the Word of God from the beginning.
He was made flesh that the promise of God to Abraham might come to
fruition. The Word in the flesh!
Galatians 4:4
"But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son,
made of a woman, made under the law,"
And this could only be done because the Word was God. As of course we
read in verse 3 of John 1:
John 1:3
"All things were made by Him; and without Him was not anything made
that was made."
Not only from the beginning was the Word with God, and "was God", but
as God, the Word was the creator of all (not some) things, And there
is nothing that was made that was made by anyone but Him. All was made
by the Word of God. It doesn't get much clearer than this. And despite
some religious groups claims to the contrary, it doesn't take a Ph.d,
or doctorate in Greek and Hebrew to understand what is being said. As
Creator, He had to be Jehovah God.
Genesis 1:9
"And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together
unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the
waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good".
Genesis 2:4
"These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they
were created, in the day that the Jehovah God made the earth and the
heavens,"
Hebrews 11:3
"Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the Word
of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do
appear".
God Spake, and it was so. The Word of God created Heaven and earth.
The very same Word of God John chapter one says Created all things and
was made flesh. If that doesn't make Jesus God in man's eyes, nothing
will! He was at the beginning, He was with God, He was God, and He
created all things. The Word of God framed the worlds, and scripture
says that it is by faith that we understand this. That is the key. And
John continues in verse 14:
John 1:14
"and the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His
glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of Grace
and Truth."
That which was with God from the beginning, and indeed was God and
created all things, was "made Flesh and dwelt among men" as the only
begotten of the Father. God, come to earth in the form of a man
(begotten of God) in order to fulfill "His Word" of promise to be the
Saviour. This is
...
On Jul 20, 5:02 pm, Tylor <tylor_lov...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Actually, believing in the deity of Jesus Christ is a fundamental
> part of being a true Christian.
I agree.
> For if Christ was just a man, or even
> a super man, then we are of all men most foolish to be looking to Him
> to be the Saviour.
Please provide objective and verifiable evidence that we need saving.
Until you do, the remainder of your post is irrelevant, since it
hinges on that premise.
> For there is no man who could have had every single
> sin of every Child of God laid upon Him, carried them to the cross,
> and suffered death as the wages for those sins, and be risen up from
> that death, free from that debt of sin. There is no super man who
> could purge man from his sins as required, it would take a God. And
> there is only one Jehovah God, who qualifies! In fact, the whole idea
> of Christ being just a man or lesser god, makes the Christian belief
> ridiculous.
> Isaiah 43:10-11
> "Ye are My witnesses, saith the Lord, and My servant whom I have
> Chosen: that ye may know and believe Me, and understand that I AM He:
> before Me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after Me.
> I, even I, AM the Lord; and beside Me, There is No Saviour."
> That word translated Lord there is in the Hebrew [yehovah] Jehovah.
> There is no god before who is the Saviour, and no god after. Jehovah
> God is the only possible Saviour. No man, nor superman, could
> accomplish the task of being burdened with all our sins, judged for
> them, and be resurrected without them. Even a non-Christians can
> understand the bankruptcy of any other idea. For when we actually stop
> to think about it seriously, it's quite ludicrous! Unless this man was
> the very revelation of God (the only one able to become sin for us,
> and withstand the judgment thereof), we have no Saviour! And that is
> exactly what God said in Isaiah chapter 43 verse 11. Who could
> accomplish such a feat to be a saviour? The answer in all
> reasonableness is, no one but Jehovah God is the Saviour.
> Which brings us to the question, "how then was He God, and yet judged
> of God for our sins?" The answer is found in God's Word of promise to
> His people of a Saviour, and yet there being none that could Save! If
> the Word of promise was to stand and be kept lawfully, then God had to
> of His own arm, bring Salvation. He Himself would have to be the
> Saviour. For no one else could! If we put our hope in man for
> Salvation, we hope in vain. It is the Lord God Himself who is our hope
> and will set us free. As it is written, only He can Save.
> Psalms 146:3-8
> "Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there
> is no help.
> His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day
> his thoughts perish.
> Happy is he that hath the God of Jacob for his help, whose hope is in
> the LORD his God:
> Which made heaven, and earth, the sea, and all that therein is: which
> keepeth truth for ever:
> Which executeth judgment for the oppressed: which giveth food to the
> hungry. The LORD looseth the prisoners:
> The LORD openeth the eyes of the blind: the LORD raiseth them that are
> bowed down: the LORD loveth the righteous:"
> That word Lord there again is Jehovah. He made Heaven and earth and
> all that therein is. Scripture says Christ made Heaven and earth and
> all that therein is (John 1:3). There is no contradiction, for Christ
> is Jehovah God. There is one God, but God reveals aspects of Himself
> in three. In three, the purpose and will of God is worked out for man.
> God manifested as the Father, God manifested as the Son, and God
> manifested as the Holy Spirit! The Father shows God revealed in all
> his Omnipotent Glory, Might and Majesty, while the Son shows God
> revealed in the revelation of the Word, in Promise, in Judgment, in
> Salvation, in mercy, and and in Sacrifice. And the Holy Spirit is God
> revealed to man in His omnipresence to perform His will throughout the
> earth and in men. This is one God, and one Power, not three! God has
> made it clear "from the very beginning" about this three in the one
> Godhead!
> Genesis 1:26
> "And God said, let us make man in our image, after our likeness..."
> In the Hebrew text this is plural, not singular. God is making it very
> clear that there is one God, and yet that one God works out His will
> in man in three. All throughout scripture we see this same picture of
> one God working out His Purpose and will on earth, in three.
> Isaiah 48:16
> "Come ye near unto Me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from
> the beginning; from the time that it was, there AM I, and now the Lord
> God, and His Spirit, hath sent Me."
> There we see God give us the illustration again. Three, from the very
> foundation of the world, from the time that the beginning was, there
> was the great I am, and the Lord God, and His Holy Spirit. Very
> concise, very clear, very unambiguous language showing us the three in
> the Godhead. It's just one more example (of many) of the way God's
> Word is consistent and in scriptural harmony throughout. Even as He
> said "before Him there was no God formed, neither shall there be after
> Him". You see, contrary to what some cults claim about multiple gods,
> God Himself denies it saying there is "ONE" God in heaven. But His
> purpose for man is revealed in "three."
> With all these facts, still there are some misguided souls who insist,
> "No that's not true, Christ and His Spirit weren't there in the
> beginning with God, and He didn't create heaven and earth." But that
> simply is denying the obvious. Since God refutes that. Everywhere the
> scriptures tell the very same story of the Godhead being revealed in
> three. These are not isolated or ambiguous verses. Jesus Christ was
> fully God, who was made of no reputation by leaving the Glory He had
> with the father, and was revealed in flesh, in the likeness of man, in
> order to be the Savior that only God could be.
> Colossians 2:9
> "..For in Him dwelleth All the Fullness of the Godhead Bodily!"
> How could God make that statement if it was not true? Of course, He
> couldn't and wouldn't. It is true! In Christ dwells all the Fulness of
> God, and yet He left His Glory in Heaven, abased Himself to become
> flesh and suffer for His People as man. This is the mystery of God
> that we can only grasp at ways to fully understand. Even though God
> plainly tells us..
> 1st John 5:7
> "For there are three that bear record in heaven, The Father, The Word,
> and the Holy Ghost; And these Three are One!
> These three are One! There is One God, manifesting Himself in three.
> God, the Father, God the Holy Spirit, and God, the Word. The Word is a
> synonym for Christ. He is God's Word of Salvation come to fulfillment!
> The Promised Word of God revealed in the form of man! Man's word means
> nothing, but God's Word is sure, righteous, dependable, and the Law!
> And His Word declared that He was the Saviour! Therefore, He became
> flesh to fulfill that Word. The same Word that created heaven and
> earth and all that was therein became flesh! We read,
> John 1:1
> "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the
> Word Was God."
> Here is understanding. The Word was not only with God, but the Word
> "was God!" Which of course is totally consistent with everything else
> we read. He was with Jehovah God, who created all things, and He was
> Jehovah God. If there is only one God, and you are with that God, and
> you are God, then it would be tortuous of scripture to claim that this
> is not that God.
> John 1:2
> "The same was in the Beginning with God.
> The two are one God. The word was there at the beginning with God
> because it was God. He did not come into existence 2000 years ago when
> the Word was made flesh, He's been the Word of God from the beginning.
> He was made flesh that the promise of God to Abraham might come to
> fruition. The Word in the flesh!
> Galatians 4:4
> "But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son,
> made of a woman, made under the law,"
> And this could only be done because the Word was God. As of course we
> read in verse 3 of John 1:
> John 1:3
> "All things were made by Him; and without Him was not anything made
> that was made."
> Not only from the beginning was the Word with God, and "was God", but
> as God, the Word was the creator of all (not some) things, And there
> is nothing that was made that was made by anyone but Him. All was made
> by the Word of God. It doesn't get much clearer than this. And despite
> some religious groups claims to the contrary, it doesn't take a Ph.d,
> or doctorate in Greek and Hebrew to understand what is being said. As
> Creator, He had to be Jehovah God.
> Genesis 1:9
> "And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together
> unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
> And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the
> waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good".
> Genesis 2:4
> "These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they
> were created, in the day that the Jehovah God made the earth and the
> heavens,"
> Hebrews 11:3
> "Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the Word
> of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do
> appear".
> God Spake, and it was so. The Word of God created Heaven and earth.
> The very same Word of God John chapter one says Created all things and
> was made flesh. If that doesn't make Jesus God in man's eyes, nothing
> will! He was at the beginning, He was with God, He was God, and He
> created all things. The
> > For if Christ was just a man, or even
> > a super man, then we are of all men most foolish to be looking to Him
> > to be the Saviour.
> Please provide objective and verifiable evidence that we need saving.
> Until you do, the remainder of your post is irrelevant, since it
> hinges on that premise.
WE need saving because we have all sinned. And without asking Jesus
Christ into our hearts (who is the last sacrifice, his blood forgives
our sins) we cannot enter into heaven until we are saved. So there is
your evidence that we need saving.
On Jul 20, 7:29 pm, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 20, 5:02 pm, Tylor <tylor_lov...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Actually, believing in the deity of Jesus Christ is a fundamental
> > part of being a true Christian.
> I agree.
> > For if Christ was just a man, or even
> > a super man, then we are of all men most foolish to be looking to Him
> > to be the Saviour.
> Please provide objective and verifiable evidence that we need saving.
> Until you do, the remainder of your post is irrelevant, since it
> hinges on that premise.
> > For there is no man who could have had every single
> > sin of every Child of God laid upon Him, carried them to the cross,
> > and suffered death as the wages for those sins, and be risen up from
> > that death, free from that debt of sin. There is no super man who
> > could purge man from his sins as required, it would take a God. And
> > there is only one Jehovah God, who qualifies! In fact, the whole idea
> > of Christ being just a man or lesser god, makes the Christian belief
> > ridiculous.
> > Isaiah 43:10-11
> > "Ye are My witnesses, saith the Lord, and My servant whom I have
> > Chosen: that ye may know and believe Me, and understand that I AM He:
> > before Me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after Me.
> > I, even I, AM the Lord; and beside Me, There is No Saviour."
> > That word translated Lord there is in the Hebrew [yehovah] Jehovah.
> > There is no god before who is the Saviour, and no god after. Jehovah
> > God is the only possible Saviour. No man, nor superman, could
> > accomplish the task of being burdened with all our sins, judged for
> > them, and be resurrected without them. Even a non-Christians can
> > understand the bankruptcy of any other idea. For when we actually stop
> > to think about it seriously, it's quite ludicrous! Unless this man was
> > the very revelation of God (the only one able to become sin for us,
> > and withstand the judgment thereof), we have no Saviour! And that is
> > exactly what God said in Isaiah chapter 43 verse 11. Who could
> > accomplish such a feat to be a saviour? The answer in all
> > reasonableness is, no one but Jehovah God is the Saviour.
> > Which brings us to the question, "how then was He God, and yet judged
> > of God for our sins?" The answer is found in God's Word of promise to
> > His people of a Saviour, and yet there being none that could Save! If
> > the Word of promise was to stand and be kept lawfully, then God had to
> > of His own arm, bring Salvation. He Himself would have to be the
> > Saviour. For no one else could! If we put our hope in man for
> > Salvation, we hope in vain. It is the Lord God Himself who is our hope
> > and will set us free. As it is written, only He can Save.
> > Psalms 146:3-8
> > "Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there
> > is no help.
> > His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day
> > his thoughts perish.
> > Happy is he that hath the God of Jacob for his help, whose hope is in
> > the LORD his God:
> > Which made heaven, and earth, the sea, and all that therein is: which
> > keepeth truth for ever:
> > Which executeth judgment for the oppressed: which giveth food to the
> > hungry. The LORD looseth the prisoners:
> > The LORD openeth the eyes of the blind: the LORD raiseth them that are
> > bowed down: the LORD loveth the righteous:"
> > That word Lord there again is Jehovah. He made Heaven and earth and
> > all that therein is. Scripture says Christ made Heaven and earth and
> > all that therein is (John 1:3). There is no contradiction, for Christ
> > is Jehovah God. There is one God, but God reveals aspects of Himself
> > in three. In three, the purpose and will of God is worked out for man.
> > God manifested as the Father, God manifested as the Son, and God
> > manifested as the Holy Spirit! The Father shows God revealed in all
> > his Omnipotent Glory, Might and Majesty, while the Son shows God
> > revealed in the revelation of the Word, in Promise, in Judgment, in
> > Salvation, in mercy, and and in Sacrifice. And the Holy Spirit is God
> > revealed to man in His omnipresence to perform His will throughout the
> > earth and in men. This is one God, and one Power, not three! God has
> > made it clear "from the very beginning" about this three in the one
> > Godhead!
> > Genesis 1:26
> > "And God said, let us make man in our image, after our likeness..."
> > In the Hebrew text this is plural, not singular. God is making it very
> > clear that there is one God, and yet that one God works out His will
> > in man in three. All throughout scripture we see this same picture of
> > one God working out His Purpose and will on earth, in three.
> > Isaiah 48:16
> > "Come ye near unto Me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from
> > the beginning; from the time that it was, there AM I, and now the Lord
> > God, and His Spirit, hath sent Me."
> > There we see God give us the illustration again. Three, from the very
> > foundation of the world, from the time that the beginning was, there
> > was the great I am, and the Lord God, and His Holy Spirit. Very
> > concise, very clear, very unambiguous language showing us the three in
> > the Godhead. It's just one more example (of many) of the way God's
> > Word is consistent and in scriptural harmony throughout. Even as He
> > said "before Him there was no God formed, neither shall there be after
> > Him". You see, contrary to what some cults claim about multiple gods,
> > God Himself denies it saying there is "ONE" God in heaven. But His
> > purpose for man is revealed in "three."
> > With all these facts, still there are some misguided souls who insist,
> > "No that's not true, Christ and His Spirit weren't there in the
> > beginning with God, and He didn't create heaven and earth." But that
> > simply is denying the obvious. Since God refutes that. Everywhere the
> > scriptures tell the very same story of the Godhead being revealed in
> > three. These are not isolated or ambiguous verses. Jesus Christ was
> > fully God, who was made of no reputation by leaving the Glory He had
> > with the father, and was revealed in flesh, in the likeness of man, in
> > order to be the Savior that only God could be.
> > Colossians 2:9
> > "..For in Him dwelleth All the Fullness of the Godhead Bodily!"
> > How could God make that statement if it was not true? Of course, He
> > couldn't and wouldn't. It is true! In Christ dwells all the Fulness of
> > God, and yet He left His Glory in Heaven, abased Himself to become
> > flesh and suffer for His People as man. This is the mystery of God
> > that we can only grasp at ways to fully understand. Even though God
> > plainly tells us..
> > 1st John 5:7
> > "For there are three that bear record in heaven, The Father, The Word,
> > and the Holy Ghost; And these Three are One!
> > These three are One! There is One God, manifesting Himself in three.
> > God, the Father, God the Holy Spirit, and God, the Word. The Word is a
> > synonym for Christ. He is God's Word of Salvation come to fulfillment!
> > The Promised Word of God revealed in the form of man! Man's word means
> > nothing, but God's Word is sure, righteous, dependable, and the Law!
> > And His Word declared that He was the Saviour! Therefore, He became
> > flesh to fulfill that Word. The same Word that created heaven and
> > earth and all that was therein became flesh! We read,
> > John 1:1
> > "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the
> > Word Was God."
> > Here is understanding. The Word was not only with God, but the Word
> > "was God!" Which of course is totally consistent with everything else
> > we read. He was with Jehovah God, who created all things, and He was
> > Jehovah God. If there is only one God, and you are with that God, and
> > you are God, then it would be tortuous of scripture to claim that this
> > is not that God.
> > John 1:2
> > "The same was in the Beginning with God.
> > The two are one God. The word was there at the beginning with God
> > because it was God. He did not come into existence 2000 years ago when
> > the Word was made flesh, He's been the Word of God from the beginning.
> > He was made flesh that the promise of God to Abraham might come to
> > fruition. The Word in the flesh!
> > Galatians 4:4
> > "But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son,
> > made of a woman, made under the law,"
> > And this could only be done because the Word was God. As of course we
> > read in verse 3 of John 1:
> > John 1:3
> > "All things were made by Him; and without Him was not anything made
> > that was made."
> > Not only from the beginning was the Word with God, and "was God", but
> > as God, the Word was the creator of all (not some) things, And there
> > is nothing that was made that was made by anyone but Him. All was made
> > by the Word of God. It doesn't get much clearer than this. And despite
> > some religious groups claims to the contrary, it doesn't take a Ph.d,
> > or doctorate in Greek and Hebrew to understand what is being said. As
> > Creator, He had to be Jehovah God.
> > > For if Christ was just a man, or even
> > > a super man, then we are of all men most foolish to be looking to Him
> > > to be the Saviour.
> > Please provide objective and verifiable evidence that we need saving.
> > Until you do, the remainder of your post is irrelevant, since it
> > hinges on that premise.
> WE need saving because we have all sinned. And without asking Jesus
> Christ into our hearts (who is the last sacrifice, his blood forgives
> our sins) we cannot enter into heaven until we are saved. So there is
> your evidence that we need saving.
> On Jul 20, 7:29 pm, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > On Jul 20, 5:02 pm, Tylor <tylor_lov...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > Actually, believing in the deity of Jesus Christ is a fundamental
> > > part of being a true Christian.
> > I agree.
> > > For if Christ was just a man, or even
> > > a super man, then we are of all men most foolish to be looking to Him
> > > to be the Saviour.
> > Please provide objective and verifiable evidence that we need saving.
> > Until you do, the remainder of your post is irrelevant, since it
> > hinges on that premise.
> > > For there is no man who could have had every single
> > > sin of every Child of God laid upon Him, carried them to the cross,
> > > and suffered death as the wages for those sins, and be risen up from
> > > that death, free from that debt of sin. There is no super man who
> > > could purge man from his sins as required, it would take a God. And
> > > there is only one Jehovah God, who qualifies! In fact, the whole idea
> > > of Christ being just a man or lesser god, makes the Christian belief
> > > ridiculous.
> > > Isaiah 43:10-11
> > > "Ye are My witnesses, saith the Lord, and My servant whom I have
> > > Chosen: that ye may know and believe Me, and understand that I AM He:
> > > before Me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after Me.
> > > I, even I, AM the Lord; and beside Me, There is No Saviour."
> > > That word translated Lord there is in the Hebrew [yehovah] Jehovah.
> > > There is no god before who is the Saviour, and no god after. Jehovah
> > > God is the only possible Saviour. No man, nor superman, could
> > > accomplish the task of being burdened with all our sins, judged for
> > > them, and be resurrected without them. Even a non-Christians can
> > > understand the bankruptcy of any other idea. For when we actually stop
> > > to think about it seriously, it's quite ludicrous! Unless this man was
> > > the very revelation of God (the only one able to become sin for us,
> > > and withstand the judgment thereof), we have no Saviour! And that is
> > > exactly what God said in Isaiah chapter 43 verse 11. Who could
> > > accomplish such a feat to be a saviour? The answer in all
> > > reasonableness is, no one but Jehovah God is the Saviour.
> > > Which brings us to the question, "how then was He God, and yet judged
> > > of God for our sins?" The answer is found in God's Word of promise to
> > > His people of a Saviour, and yet there being none that could Save! If
> > > the Word of promise was to stand and be kept lawfully, then God had to
> > > of His own arm, bring Salvation. He Himself would have to be the
> > > Saviour. For no one else could! If we put our hope in man for
> > > Salvation, we hope in vain. It is the Lord God Himself who is our hope
> > > and will set us free. As it is written, only He can Save.
> > > Psalms 146:3-8
> > > "Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there
> > > is no help.
> > > His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day
> > > his thoughts perish.
> > > Happy is he that hath the God of Jacob for his help, whose hope is in
> > > the LORD his God:
> > > Which made heaven, and earth, the sea, and all that therein is: which
> > > keepeth truth for ever:
> > > Which executeth judgment for the oppressed: which giveth food to the
> > > hungry. The LORD looseth the prisoners:
> > > The LORD openeth the eyes of the blind: the LORD raiseth them that are
> > > bowed down: the LORD loveth the righteous:"
> > > That word Lord there again is Jehovah. He made Heaven and earth and
> > > all that therein is. Scripture says Christ made Heaven and earth and
> > > all that therein is (John 1:3). There is no contradiction, for Christ
> > > is Jehovah God. There is one God, but God reveals aspects of Himself
> > > in three. In three, the purpose and will of God is worked out for man.
> > > God manifested as the Father, God manifested as the Son, and God
> > > manifested as the Holy Spirit! The Father shows God revealed in all
> > > his Omnipotent Glory, Might and Majesty, while the Son shows God
> > > revealed in the revelation of the Word, in Promise, in Judgment, in
> > > Salvation, in mercy, and and in Sacrifice. And the Holy Spirit is God
> > > revealed to man in His omnipresence to perform His will throughout the
> > > earth and in men. This is one God, and one Power, not three! God has
> > > made it clear "from the very beginning" about this three in the one
> > > Godhead!
> > > Genesis 1:26
> > > "And God said, let us make man in our image, after our likeness..."
> > > In the Hebrew text this is plural, not singular. God is making it very
> > > clear that there is one God, and yet that one God works out His will
> > > in man in three. All throughout scripture we see this same picture of
> > > one God working out His Purpose and will on earth, in three.
> > > Isaiah 48:16
> > > "Come ye near unto Me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from
> > > the beginning; from the time that it was, there AM I, and now the Lord
> > > God, and His Spirit, hath sent Me."
> > > There we see God give us the illustration again. Three, from the very
> > > foundation of the world, from the time that the beginning was, there
> > > was the great I am, and the Lord God, and His Holy Spirit. Very
> > > concise, very clear, very unambiguous language showing us the three in
> > > the Godhead. It's just one more example (of many) of the way God's
> > > Word is consistent and in scriptural harmony throughout. Even as He
> > > said "before Him there was no God formed, neither shall there be after
> > > Him". You see, contrary to what some cults claim about multiple gods,
> > > God Himself denies it saying there is "ONE" God in heaven. But His
> > > purpose for man is revealed in "three."
> > > With all these facts, still there are some misguided souls who insist,
> > > "No that's not true, Christ and His Spirit weren't there in the
> > > beginning with God, and He didn't create heaven and earth." But that
> > > simply is denying the obvious. Since God refutes that. Everywhere the
> > > scriptures tell the very same story of the Godhead being revealed in
> > > three. These are not isolated or ambiguous verses. Jesus Christ was
> > > fully God, who was made of no reputation by leaving the Glory He had
> > > with the father, and was revealed in flesh, in the likeness of man, in
> > > order to be the Savior that only God could be.
> > > Colossians 2:9
> > > "..For in Him dwelleth All the Fullness of the Godhead Bodily!"
> > > How could God make that statement if it was not true? Of course, He
> > > couldn't and wouldn't. It is true! In Christ dwells all the Fulness of
> > > God, and yet He left His Glory in Heaven, abased Himself to become
> > > flesh and suffer for His People as man. This is the mystery of God
> > > that we can only grasp at ways to fully understand. Even though God
> > > plainly tells us..
> > > 1st John 5:7
> > > "For there are three that bear record in heaven, The Father, The Word,
> > > and the Holy Ghost; And these Three are One!
> > > These three are One! There is One God, manifesting Himself in three.
> > > God, the Father, God the Holy Spirit, and God, the Word. The Word is a
> > > synonym for Christ. He is God's Word of Salvation come to fulfillment!
> > > The Promised Word of God revealed in the form of man! Man's word means
> > > nothing, but God's Word is sure, righteous, dependable, and the Law!
> > > And His Word declared that He was the Saviour! Therefore, He became
> > > flesh to fulfill that Word. The same Word that created heaven and
> > > earth and all that was therein became flesh! We read,
> > > John 1:1
> > > "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the
> > > Word Was God."
> > > Here is understanding. The Word was not only with God, but the Word
> > > "was God!" Which of course is totally consistent with everything else
> > > we read. He was with Jehovah God, who created all things, and He was
> > > Jehovah God. If there is only one God, and you are with that God, and
> > > you are God, then it would be tortuous of scripture to claim that this
> > > is not that God.
> > > John 1:2
> > > "The same was in the Beginning with God.
> > > The two are one God. The word was there at the beginning with God
> > > because it was God. He did not come into existence 2000 years ago when
> > > the Word was made flesh, He's been the Word of God from the beginning.
> > > He was made flesh that the promise of God to Abraham might come to
> > > fruition. The Word in the flesh!
> > > Galatians 4:4
> > > "But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son,
> > > made of a woman, made under the law,"
> > > And this could only be done because the Word was God. As of course we
> > > read in verse 3 of John 1:
> > > John 1:3
> > > "All things were made by Him; and without Him was not anything made
> > > that was made."
> > > Not only from the beginning was the Word with
On Jul 20, 5:32 pm, Tylor <tylor_lov...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > For if Christ was just a man, or even
> > > a super man, then we are of all men most foolish to be looking to Him
> > > to be the Saviour.
> > Please provide objective and verifiable evidence that we need saving.
> > Until you do, the remainder of your post is irrelevant, since it
> > hinges on that premise.
> WE need saving because we have all sinned. And without asking Jesus
> Christ into our hearts (who is the last sacrifice, his blood forgives
> our sins) we cannot enter into heaven until we are saved. So there is
> your evidence that we need saving.
That's not evidence, that's your opinion. And your opinion is
superstitious, hopelessly outdated, and anti-social. Viewing people as
"sinners" is despicable. You have no clue of the kind of harm your
diseased thinking causes. For one thing, people who tell children that
they are sinners ought to be charged with child abuse.
> On Jul 20, 7:29 pm, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > On Jul 20, 5:02 pm, Tylor <tylor_lov...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > Actually, believing in the deity of Jesus Christ is a fundamental
> > > part of being a true Christian.
> > I agree.
> > > For if Christ was just a man, or even
> > > a super man, then we are of all men most foolish to be looking to Him
> > > to be the Saviour.
> > Please provide objective and verifiable evidence that we need saving.
> > Until you do, the remainder of your post is irrelevant, since it
> > hinges on that premise.
> > > For there is no man who could have had every single
> > > sin of every Child of God laid upon Him, carried them to the cross,
> > > and suffered death as the wages for those sins, and be risen up from
> > > that death, free from that debt of sin. There is no super man who
> > > could purge man from his sins as required, it would take a God. And
> > > there is only one Jehovah God, who qualifies! In fact, the whole idea
> > > of Christ being just a man or lesser god, makes the Christian belief
> > > ridiculous.
> > > Isaiah 43:10-11
> > > "Ye are My witnesses, saith the Lord, and My servant whom I have
> > > Chosen: that ye may know and believe Me, and understand that I AM He:
> > > before Me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after Me.
> > > I, even I, AM the Lord; and beside Me, There is No Saviour."
> > > That word translated Lord there is in the Hebrew [yehovah] Jehovah.
> > > There is no god before who is the Saviour, and no god after. Jehovah
> > > God is the only possible Saviour. No man, nor superman, could
> > > accomplish the task of being burdened with all our sins, judged for
> > > them, and be resurrected without them. Even a non-Christians can
> > > understand the bankruptcy of any other idea. For when we actually stop
> > > to think about it seriously, it's quite ludicrous! Unless this man was
> > > the very revelation of God (the only one able to become sin for us,
> > > and withstand the judgment thereof), we have no Saviour! And that is
> > > exactly what God said in Isaiah chapter 43 verse 11. Who could
> > > accomplish such a feat to be a saviour? The answer in all
> > > reasonableness is, no one but Jehovah God is the Saviour.
> > > Which brings us to the question, "how then was He God, and yet judged
> > > of God for our sins?" The answer is found in God's Word of promise to
> > > His people of a Saviour, and yet there being none that could Save! If
> > > the Word of promise was to stand and be kept lawfully, then God had to
> > > of His own arm, bring Salvation. He Himself would have to be the
> > > Saviour. For no one else could! If we put our hope in man for
> > > Salvation, we hope in vain. It is the Lord God Himself who is our hope
> > > and will set us free. As it is written, only He can Save.
> > > Psalms 146:3-8
> > > "Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there
> > > is no help.
> > > His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day
> > > his thoughts perish.
> > > Happy is he that hath the God of Jacob for his help, whose hope is in
> > > the LORD his God:
> > > Which made heaven, and earth, the sea, and all that therein is: which
> > > keepeth truth for ever:
> > > Which executeth judgment for the oppressed: which giveth food to the
> > > hungry. The LORD looseth the prisoners:
> > > The LORD openeth the eyes of the blind: the LORD raiseth them that are
> > > bowed down: the LORD loveth the righteous:"
> > > That word Lord there again is Jehovah. He made Heaven and earth and
> > > all that therein is. Scripture says Christ made Heaven and earth and
> > > all that therein is (John 1:3). There is no contradiction, for Christ
> > > is Jehovah God. There is one God, but God reveals aspects of Himself
> > > in three. In three, the purpose and will of God is worked out for man.
> > > God manifested as the Father, God manifested as the Son, and God
> > > manifested as the Holy Spirit! The Father shows God revealed in all
> > > his Omnipotent Glory, Might and Majesty, while the Son shows God
> > > revealed in the revelation of the Word, in Promise, in Judgment, in
> > > Salvation, in mercy, and and in Sacrifice. And the Holy Spirit is God
> > > revealed to man in His omnipresence to perform His will throughout the
> > > earth and in men. This is one God, and one Power, not three! God has
> > > made it clear "from the very beginning" about this three in the one
> > > Godhead!
> > > Genesis 1:26
> > > "And God said, let us make man in our image, after our likeness..."
> > > In the Hebrew text this is plural, not singular. God is making it very
> > > clear that there is one God, and yet that one God works out His will
> > > in man in three. All throughout scripture we see this same picture of
> > > one God working out His Purpose and will on earth, in three.
> > > Isaiah 48:16
> > > "Come ye near unto Me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from
> > > the beginning; from the time that it was, there AM I, and now the Lord
> > > God, and His Spirit, hath sent Me."
> > > There we see God give us the illustration again. Three, from the very
> > > foundation of the world, from the time that the beginning was, there
> > > was the great I am, and the Lord God, and His Holy Spirit. Very
> > > concise, very clear, very unambiguous language showing us the three in
> > > the Godhead. It's just one more example (of many) of the way God's
> > > Word is consistent and in scriptural harmony throughout. Even as He
> > > said "before Him there was no God formed, neither shall there be after
> > > Him". You see, contrary to what some cults claim about multiple gods,
> > > God Himself denies it saying there is "ONE" God in heaven. But His
> > > purpose for man is revealed in "three."
> > > With all these facts, still there are some misguided souls who insist,
> > > "No that's not true, Christ and His Spirit weren't there in the
> > > beginning with God, and He didn't create heaven and earth." But that
> > > simply is denying the obvious. Since God refutes that. Everywhere the
> > > scriptures tell the very same story of the Godhead being revealed in
> > > three. These are not isolated or ambiguous verses. Jesus Christ was
> > > fully God, who was made of no reputation by leaving the Glory He had
> > > with the father, and was revealed in flesh, in the likeness of man, in
> > > order to be the Savior that only God could be.
> > > Colossians 2:9
> > > "..For in Him dwelleth All the Fullness of the Godhead Bodily!"
> > > How could God make that statement if it was not true? Of course, He
> > > couldn't and wouldn't. It is true! In Christ dwells all the Fulness of
> > > God, and yet He left His Glory in Heaven, abased Himself to become
> > > flesh and suffer for His People as man. This is the mystery of God
> > > that we can only grasp at ways to fully understand. Even though God
> > > plainly tells us..
> > > 1st John 5:7
> > > "For there are three that bear record in heaven, The Father, The Word,
> > > and the Holy Ghost; And these Three are One!
> > > These three are One! There is One God, manifesting Himself in three.
> > > God, the Father, God the Holy Spirit, and God, the Word. The Word is a
> > > synonym for Christ. He is God's Word of Salvation come to fulfillment!
> > > The Promised Word of God revealed in the form of man! Man's word means
> > > nothing, but God's Word is sure, righteous, dependable, and the Law!
> > > And His Word declared that He was the Saviour! Therefore, He became
> > > flesh to fulfill that Word. The same Word that created heaven and
> > > earth and all that was therein became flesh! We read,
> > > John 1:1
> > > "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the
> > > Word Was God."
> > > Here is understanding. The Word was not only with God, but the Word
> > > "was God!" Which of course is totally consistent with everything else
> > > we read. He was with Jehovah God, who created all things, and He was
> > > Jehovah God. If there is only one God, and you are with that God, and
> > > you are God, then it would be tortuous of scripture to claim that this
> > > is not that God.
> > > John 1:2
> > > "The same was in the Beginning with God.
> > > The two are one God. The word was there at the beginning with God
> > > because it was God. He did not come into existence 2000 years ago when
> > > the Word was made flesh, He's been the Word of God from the beginning.
> > > He was made flesh that the promise of God to Abraham might come to
> > > fruition. The Word in the flesh!
> > > Galatians 4:4
> > > "But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son,
> > > made of a woman, made under the law,"
> > > And this could only
