Martin Luther had one thing right. He said that to beleive in god
required faith, not reason. Reason, he said was the enemy of faith.
which had to be trampled underfoot.
Reason is the Devil's greatest whore; by nature and manner of being
she is a noxious whore; she is a prostitute, the Devil's appointed
whore; whore eaten by scab and leprosy who ought to be trodden under
foot and destroyed, she and her wisdom ... Throw dung in her face to
make her ugly. She is and she ought to be drowned in baptism... She
would deserve, the wretch, to be banished to the filthiest place in
the house, to the closets.
Martin Luther, Erlangen Edition v. 16, pp. 142-148
It all a matter of choice, either live a life or rationality and
reason, or believe in god.
I choose reason. I will embrace the whore of the Devil, though she be
eaten by leprosy. I will bear her up to avoid the tramping feet of the
ignorant hoards of Christians and Moslems who have throughout history
tried to suppress her. If she bears scabs and is wretched it is
because of the indignities and wounds she has suffered from the blind
stupidity of Abrahamic faith.
I think the kind of reason Luther was referring to can be explained by
atleast this example:
There is the reasoning that takes away hope. When things don't look
like they will work out and the outwards circumstances via the
atheist's best friend (the 5 senses) show that you are about to fail,
it causes the heart to faint or causes one to quit. A perfect
illustration of this can perhaps be explained by those who attempted
suicide. In such an example, what reasoning shows you is useless.
Christians don't despise reasoning, we are just honest enough to admit
that it has its faults, therefore we do not make it our God.
On Jul 19, 9:48 am, chazworth <chazwy...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Martin Luther had one thing right. He said that to beleive in god
> required faith, not reason. Reason, he said was the enemy of faith.
> which had to be trampled underfoot.
> Reason is the Devil's greatest whore; by nature and manner of being
> she is a noxious whore; she is a prostitute, the Devil's appointed
> whore; whore eaten by scab and leprosy who ought to be trodden under
> foot and destroyed, she and her wisdom ... Throw dung in her face to
> make her ugly. She is and she ought to be drowned in baptism... She
> would deserve, the wretch, to be banished to the filthiest place in
> the house, to the closets.
> Martin Luther, Erlangen Edition v. 16, pp. 142-148
> It all a matter of choice, either live a life or rationality and
> reason, or believe in god.
> I choose reason. I will embrace the whore of the Devil, though she be
> eaten by leprosy. I will bear her up to avoid the tramping feet of the
> ignorant hoards of Christians and Moslems who have throughout history
> tried to suppress her. If she bears scabs and is wretched it is
> because of the indignities and wounds she has suffered from the blind
> stupidity of Abrahamic faith.
On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 10:13 AM, semi <seminole10...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I think the kind of reason Luther was referring to can be explained by > atleast this example:
> There is the reasoning that takes away hope. When things don't look > like they will work out and the outwards circumstances via the > atheist's best friend (the 5 senses) show that you are about to fail, > it causes the heart to faint or causes one to quit. A perfect > illustration of this can perhaps be explained by those who attempted > suicide. In such an example, what reasoning shows you is useless. > Christians don't despise reasoning, we are just honest enough to admit > that it has its faults, therefore we do not make it our God.
> On Jul 19, 9:48 am, chazworth <chazwy...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > Martin Luther had one thing right. He said that to beleive in god > > required faith, not reason. Reason, he said was the enemy of faith. > > which had to be trampled underfoot.
> > Reason is the Devil's greatest whore; by nature and manner of being > > she is a noxious whore; she is a prostitute, the Devil's appointed > > whore; whore eaten by scab and leprosy who ought to be trodden under > > foot and destroyed, she and her wisdom ... Throw dung in her face to > > make her ugly. She is and she ought to be drowned in baptism... She > > would deserve, the wretch, to be banished to the filthiest place in > > the house, to the closets. > > Martin Luther, Erlangen Edition v. 16, pp. 142-148
> > It all a matter of choice, either live a life or rationality and > > reason, or believe in god.
> > I choose reason. I will embrace the whore of the Devil, though she be > > eaten by leprosy. I will bear her up to avoid the tramping feet of the > > ignorant hoards of Christians and Moslems who have throughout history > > tried to suppress her. If she bears scabs and is wretched it is > > because of the indignities and wounds she has suffered from the blind > > stupidity of Abrahamic faith.
On Jul 19, 11:50 am, "Turner Hayes" <lordlacol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I guess Luther just forgot to specify which "kind of reason" (are there
> "kinds"?) he meant. Good thing we have you here to clear it up.
Words are not so easily objectively understood all the time when you
are trying to understand a reality or idea another is trying to
portray. In order for Luther to even state what he did, he had to
reason before he wrote it down. So obviously he's not referring to
reasoning in the general sense.
And what is the reason you choose? do you know? I don't think so.
and what Martin luther said it's matter to you, or to anyone for that
case. If you say God said then I may listen. Well let me tell you
this. Nothing I mean nothing happen by mistake in God world now think
about it if you can enjoy..
On Jul 19, 2:48 pm, chazworth <chazwy...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Martin Luther had one thing right. He said that to beleive in god
> required faith, not reason. Reason, he said was the enemy of faith.
> which had to be trampled underfoot.
> Reason is the Devil's greatest whore; by nature and manner of being
> she is a noxious whore; she is a prostitute, the Devil's appointed
> whore; whore eaten by scab and leprosy who ought to be trodden under
> foot and destroyed, she and her wisdom ... Throw dung in her face to
> make her ugly. She is and she ought to be drowned in baptism... She
> would deserve, the wretch, to be banished to the filthiest place in
> the house, to the closets.
> Martin Luther, Erlangen Edition v. 16, pp. 142-148
> It all a matter of choice, either live a life or rationality and
> reason, or believe in god.
> I choose reason. I will embrace the whore of the Devil, though she be
> eaten by leprosy. I will bear her up to avoid the tramping feet of the
> ignorant hoards of Christians and Moslems who have throughout history
> tried to suppress her. If she bears scabs and is wretched it is
> because of the indignities and wounds she has suffered from the blind
> stupidity of Abrahamic faith.
On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 12:28 PM, semi <seminole10...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jul 19, 11:50 am, "Turner Hayes" <lordlacol...@gmail.com> wrote: > > I guess Luther just forgot to specify which "kind of reason" (are there > > "kinds"?) he meant. Good thing we have you here to clear it up.
> Words are not so easily objectively understood all the time when you > are trying to understand a reality or idea another is trying to > portray. In order for Luther to even state what he did, he had to > reason before he wrote it down. So obviously he's not referring to > reasoning in the general sense.
The point is that you're doing the same thing to Luther's writings that you do to the Bible--twisting definitions and adding words in order to make it more palatable. YOU may argue what you argued, but that's you, not Luther. And I agree he had to reason (in a very limited capacity) in order to write what he did. Which means that he was being hypocritical, by denouncing reason after having practiced it himself.
> Martin Luther had one thing right. He said that to beleive in god > required faith, not reason. Reason, he said was the enemy of faith. > which had to be trampled underfoot.
> Reason is the Devil's greatest whore; by nature and manner of being > she is a noxious whore; she is a prostitute, the Devil's appointed > whore; whore eaten by scab and leprosy who ought to be trodden under > foot and destroyed, she and her wisdom ... Throw dung in her face to > make her ugly. She is and she ought to be drowned in baptism... She > would deserve, the wretch, to be banished to the filthiest place in > the house, to the closets. > Martin Luther, Erlangen Edition v. 16, pp. 142-148
> It all a matter of choice, either live a life or rationality and > reason, or believe in god.
> I choose reason. I will embrace the whore of the Devil, though she be > eaten by leprosy. I will bear her up to avoid the tramping feet of the > ignorant hoards of Christians and Moslems who have throughout history > tried to suppress her. If she bears scabs and is wretched it is > because of the indignities and wounds she has suffered from the blind > stupidity of Abrahamic faith.
On Jul 19, 9:48 am, chazworth <chazwy...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I choose reason. I will embrace the whore of the Devil, though she be
> eaten by leprosy. I will bear her up to avoid the tramping feet of the
> ignorant hoards of Christians and Moslems who have throughout history
> tried to suppress her. If she bears scabs and is wretched it is
> because of the indignities and wounds she has suffered from the blind
> stupidity of Abrahamic faith.
To simply "choose reason" is to be bound by the limitations of reason.
And if reason is predicated upon the existential and humanistic
premises that are so commonly articulated on this forum, it is
epistemologically untenable.
Of course, you simplistically frame the issue in a "reason vs faith"
manner, as if to choose faith is to reject reason completely for all
situations and under all circumstances. That is not an accurate view.
More accurate would be the concept of "precedence" or "pre-eminent"
in which faith and reason operate side-by-side, and only in matters of
disagreement, where "faith" points in one direction and "reason"
points in another, would the choice of which direction be considered a
conflict. And in that limited conflict, one must decide which will
have the pre-eminence. :)
> I think the kind of reason Luther was referring to can be explained by
> atleast this example:
> There is the reasoning that takes away hope. When things don't look
> like they will work out and the outwards circumstances via the
> atheist's best friend (the 5 senses) show that you are about to fail,
> it causes the heart to faint or causes one to quit. A perfect
> illustration of this can perhaps be explained by those who attempted
> suicide. In such an example, what reasoning shows you is useless.
> Christians don't despise reasoning, we are just honest enough to admit
> that it has its faults, therefore we do not make it our God.
> On Jul 19, 9:48 am, chazworth <chazwy...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Martin Luther had one thing right. He said that to beleive in god
> > required faith, not reason. Reason, he said was the enemy of faith.
> > which had to be trampled underfoot.
> > Reason is the Devil's greatest whore; by nature and manner of being
> > she is a noxious whore; she is a prostitute, the Devil's appointed
> > whore; whore eaten by scab and leprosy who ought to be trodden under
> > foot and destroyed, she and her wisdom ... Throw dung in her face to
> > make her ugly. She is and she ought to be drowned in baptism... She
> > would deserve, the wretch, to be banished to the filthiest place in
> > the house, to the closets.
> > Martin Luther, Erlangen Edition v. 16, pp. 142-148
> > It all a matter of choice, either live a life or rationality and
> > reason, or believe in god.
> > I choose reason. I will embrace the whore of the Devil, though she be
> > eaten by leprosy. I will bear her up to avoid the tramping feet of the
> > ignorant hoards of Christians and Moslems who have throughout history
> > tried to suppress her. If she bears scabs and is wretched it is
> > because of the indignities and wounds she has suffered from the blind
> > stupidity of Abrahamic faith.
On Jul 19, 5:53 pm, "Keith MacNevins" <kmacnev...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Reason and faith are not opposites. Thank you very much.
Martin Luther was a lot smarter than you!
They are exactly that, and all philosophers will tell you exactly
that.
By definition faith is the means by which you believe a thing for
which no reason exists. Faith is the antithesis of reason.
Mark Twain: " faith is believing a thing you know ain't true"
> On 7/19/08, chazworth <chazwy...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Martin Luther had one thing right. He said that to beleive in god
> > required faith, not reason. Reason, he said was the enemy of faith.
> > which had to be trampled underfoot.
> > Reason is the Devil's greatest whore; by nature and manner of being
> > she is a noxious whore; she is a prostitute, the Devil's appointed
> > whore; whore eaten by scab and leprosy who ought to be trodden under
> > foot and destroyed, she and her wisdom ... Throw dung in her face to
> > make her ugly. She is and she ought to be drowned in baptism... She
> > would deserve, the wretch, to be banished to the filthiest place in
> > the house, to the closets.
> > Martin Luther, Erlangen Edition v. 16, pp. 142-148
> > It all a matter of choice, either live a life or rationality and
> > reason, or believe in god.
> > I choose reason. I will embrace the whore of the Devil, though she be
> > eaten by leprosy. I will bear her up to avoid the tramping feet of the
> > ignorant hoards of Christians and Moslems who have throughout history
> > tried to suppress her. If she bears scabs and is wretched it is
> > because of the indignities and wounds she has suffered from the blind
> > stupidity of Abrahamic faith.
