Have you someone read Schild's ladder from Greg Egan? I haven't finished yet, but I want to ask you something: how did this 'Slowdown' work? I mean, whole planet was waiting for anyone who'd traveled until he got back. People changed their perception of the world so it didn't look strange to them, but how did they managed not to starve to death or not to get old in meantime? Were some unsentient robots fedeng them? (I probably just missed it, it had to be explained there.)
Here, Jan Irigi Olsina <jan.ols...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Have you someone read Schild's ladder from Greg Egan? I haven't > finished yet, but I want to ask you something: how did this 'Slowdown' > work? I mean, whole planet was waiting for anyone who'd traveled until > he got back. People changed their perception of the world so it didn't > look strange to them, but how did they managed not to starve to death > or not to get old in meantime? Were some unsentient robots fedeng > them? (I probably just missed it, it had to be explained there.)
It's been years since I read it, but as I recall -- these are people who have complete technological control over their bodies. If they slow down, they use less energy. Or maybe they have backup nuclear reactors in their spleens, I don't remember. And ageing is voluntary.
--Z
-- "And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..." * Bush's biggest lie is his claim that it's okay to disagree with him. As soon as you *actually* disagree with him, he sadly explains that you're undermining America, that you're giving comfort to the enemy. That you need to be silent.
Jan Irigi Olsina wrote: > Have you someone read Schild's ladder from Greg Egan? I haven't > finished yet, but I want to ask you something: how did this 'Slowdown' > work? I mean, whole planet was waiting for anyone who'd traveled until > he got back. People changed their perception of the world so it didn't > look strange to them, but how did they managed not to starve to death > or not to get old in meantime? Were some unsentient robots fedeng > them? (I probably just missed it, it had to be explained there.)
> Thank you!
> Irigi.
I only got it because I very rarely see my name on anything. I read the book, but didn't find that it made a whole lot of sense.
Jan Irigi Olsina wrote: > Have you someone read Schild's ladder from Greg Egan? I haven't > finished yet, but I want to ask you something: how did this 'Slowdown' > work? I mean, whole planet was waiting for anyone who'd traveled until > he got back. People changed their perception of the world so it didn't > look strange to them, but how did they managed not to starve to death > or not to get old in meantime? Were some unsentient robots fedeng > them? (I probably just missed it, it had to be explained there.)
> Thank you!
> Irigi.
_Schild's Ladder_ takes place thousands of years in the future. The majority of the characters are trans-human. Their bodies, "exo-selves", apparently top-down redesigns of the human form with completely programmable metabolisms. I don't remember whether anyone eats at all, but in any case their metabolisms slow to lower the amount of energy they need during slowdown.
> Have you someone read Schild's ladder from Greg Egan? I haven't > finished yet, but I want to ask you something: how did this 'Slowdown' > work? I mean, whole planet was waiting for anyone who'd traveled until > he got back. People changed their perception of the world so it didn't > look strange to them, but how did they managed not to starve to death > or not to get old in meantime? Were some unsentient robots fedeng > them? (I probably just missed it, it had to be explained there.)
With very rare exceptions, *everyone* in Schild's Ladder is a robot-- their minds are uploaded into datacores, and only an affectionate attachment to their biological origins has them running their experiential platforms on meat. They have more or less complete control over the biolgy they do use, and they treat it like just another technology.
On 21 Čec, 10:26, Elf M. Sternberg <e...@speakeasy.net> wrote:
> With very rare exceptions, *everyone* in Schild's Ladder is a > robot-- their minds are uploaded into datacores, and only an affectionate > attachment to their biological origins has them running their > experiential platforms on meat. They have more or less complete > control over the biolgy they do use, and they treat it like just > another technology.
> ELf
OK, but even if they have really big technical control over their bodies, it seems bit strange to me that they wouldn't have to eat during whole centuries they live in Slowdown, their bodies are still out of flesh after all.
Jan Irigi Olsina wrote: > On 21 Čec, 10:26, Elf M. Sternberg <e...@speakeasy.net> wrote: >> With very rare exceptions, *everyone* in Schild's Ladder is a >> robot-- their minds are uploaded into datacores, and only an affectionate >> attachment to their biological origins has them running their >> experiential platforms on meat. They have more or less complete >> control over the biolgy they do use, and they treat it like just >> another technology.
>> ELf
> OK, but even if they have really big technical control over their > bodies, it seems bit strange to me that they wouldn't have to eat > during whole centuries they live in Slowdown, their bodies are still > out of flesh after all.
> Irigi.
What is eating for? For energy and building materials to replace tissue damaged or "used up". During slowdown they would burn much less energy and wear and tear on their bodies would be much lower.
Also there is no reason to think that they are still "flesh" in the sense you probably mean it. Our "flesh" is pretty poorly designed. Run out of oxygen for just a few minutes and your flesh will fill with enough metabolic toxins that you will almost certainly be beyond recovery. Here is a particularly embarrassing one: if you fail to eat foods containing Vitamin C for a few months, you will die from scurvy! Yes, an easily synthesized biomolecule for almost any other animal (except guinea pigs and apes)--we are incapable of living without it.
I don't think the "humans" in _SL_ suffer from these same design flaws.
>What is eating for? For energy and building materials to replace tissue >damaged or "used up". During slowdown they would burn much less energy >and wear and tear on their bodies would be much lower.
>Also there is no reason to think that they are still "flesh" in the >sense you probably mean it. Our "flesh" is pretty poorly designed. Run >out of oxygen for just a few minutes and your flesh will fill with >enough metabolic toxins that you will almost certainly be beyond >recovery. Here is a particularly embarrassing one: if you fail to eat >foods containing Vitamin C for a few months, you will die from scurvy! >Yes, an easily synthesized biomolecule for almost any other animal >(except guinea pigs and apes)--we are incapable of living without it.
>I don't think the "humans" in _SL_ suffer from these same design flaws.
Hmm, sound like an extrapolated version of hybernation to me, major difference being that the energy consumption slow-down is not achieved by sleep and reduced body functions but by some other means...
Mind over matter? Just kidding :) I am getting curious to read this one, but have not been convinced yet totally, maybe I'll try to pick up a used paperback on the net somewhere.
Ralph Hummel wrote: > On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 00:36:04 GMT, Phillip SanMiguel > <pmig...@purdue.edu> wrote:
> [SNIP] > I am getting curious to read this > one, but have not been convinced yet totally, maybe I'll try to pick > up a used paperback on the net somewhere.
> Happy reading
> Ralph Hummel > Challonges, France
Egan seems to garner more praise for his short stories than his novels. Among the hardest of the hard SF writers, his stories are nevertheless often wildly inventive--verging on the bizarre. Arguably this plays better in a shorter work where deep characterization and pacing issues won't tend to come into play. And, I've seen it written in this group that characterization is not Egan's strong suite.
But I've a lot of affection for his novels and think his characters may not be aesthetes nor drawn in a flowery fashion, but many of them ring true enough for me. _Distress_ is a good example. Where, okay, the main character is probably afflicted with Asperger's syndrome -- or at least nearly so. For the wildest ride, though, you would want to check out _Diaspora_. But _Schild's Ladder_ is up there.
Anyway, if you are thinking about reading him, be sure to check out his web page:
This one is a useful (if distant) prequel to _Schild's Ladder_ in that it explains the origin of the quantum singleton processor or "Qusp", Egan's wacky solution to a philosophical problem I've never been able to see as a problem. But Egan, or at least his characters, seems wracked by it.
The second reason to check out the site are to see Egan's entrancing Java applets. My favorite is at the top of this page:
On 22 Čec, 19:02, Phillip SanMiguel <pmig...@purdue.edu> wrote:
> Egan seems to garner more praise for his short stories than his novels. > Among the hardest of the hard SF writers, his stories are nevertheless > often wildly inventive--verging on the bizarre. Arguably this plays > better in a shorter work where deep characterization and pacing issues > won't tend to come into play. And, I've seen it written in this group > that characterization is not Egan's strong suite.
> But I've a lot of affection for his novels and think his characters may > not be aesthetes nor drawn in a flowery fashion, but many of them ring > true enough for me. _Distress_ is a good example. Where, okay, the main > character is probably afflicted with Asperger's syndrome -- or at least > nearly so. For the wildest ride, though, you would want to check out > _Diaspora_. But _Schild's Ladder_ is up there.
According to my opinion you are right, but only from partly - real people Egan describes doesn't often seem real to me in some aspects - e.g. in Teranesia is Prabir very passionate person, but when comes to discussion, he very sophistically and thoroughly argues about almost anything. So does almost every Egan's character. When talking about real people, it seems improbable to me, but if talking about transhumans, I take it just like part of their nature. For example Tchicaya from Schild's ladder is IMHO described very well. (I just had a bit problem with motives of extremists who blow up Rindler, but they were just minor characters.)
